quote:

Originally posted by heckofajobBrownie:
That is probably true.

Let me ask you this: do you expect Wright's views to be the same as Cone's, a man who grew up in segregated Arkansas in the 50s?

(Wright grew up in Pennsylvania and was not poor.)

Why would Wright subscribe to that particular tenet of BLT - of which he attributed to Cone - if, demographically & ideologically, they were so different?

What particular tenet are you talking about? It's a big theory.

If I was understanding Toop's posts correctly, it was the excerpt posted on Trinity Baptists website (and the one he has been referring to).

*edit* This one:

quote:

Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. . . . Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love

quote:

Originally posted by heckofajobBrownie:
Nav, really. You're not following this.

We're talking about when the man said these things. He wrote them in Arkansas in the late 60s. Which is why...

Oh, nevermind.

Which is why what, it excuses something? You are trying really hard to pull a rabbit out of your butt to justify what the man said.

Legacy, those are cobbled together excepts from his book written in 1969, reacting to the segregationist South.

Nowhere does Wright say he subscribes to those particular tenets, as you say. That's what we're arguing over. I'm saying it's not fair to tag Wright today with what Cone wrote in 1969, and it's certainly not fair to then make the leap from what Cone wrote in 1969 and attach those beliefs to Obama through Wright.

Tupa is wondering how Obama could attend a church like that; like Cone. I'm wondering if it's as "like that" as he thinks it is. From what I can tell from Wright's sermons, he's stuck in another world, but it's not the same world as Arkansas in the 60s.

It is the world where I don't see him wanting for much of anything.

Gotcha. Well, I guess I'll defer to Toop's example about "claiming to be a Calvinist, but not believing in pre-destination."

I just think it's disturbingly naive (or not at all - which is worse) for those words to consistently represent BLT & have Wright continue to support BLT knowing these associations are out there if he is assuming folks will just "skim over it."

However, I do think it is a stretch to assume Obama followed these tenets as closely as Wright despite there being a little "guilt by association."

Oh, I agree with you. I would imagine that Obama knows about black liberation theology, too.

Here you go, Tupa, Legacy, anyone else who'd like to read a measured piece:

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=77b6dc91-2499-4843-b62e-93dc49206a29

quote:

Originally posted by heckofajobBrownie:
Here you go, Tupa, Legacy, anyone else who'd like to read a measured piece:

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=77b6dc91-2499-4843-b62e-93dc49206a29

Obama left the pastor for one reason and one reason only. Politics!

He was there for 20 years, and all of a sudden he wishes to run for President and the man that he called "pastor" is now "former pastor." That tells me he will not stand by what he believes, and that he used bad judgement.

I could care less if Obama believes what the pastor believes, or if he agrees with him, or if he empathizes with him. The fact is he was basically spending his adult life being spiritually mentored by him.

He either buys it or he used all those people just for policitcal gain. Either way I have no use for the man now.

Obumba is throwing his charm around like bathwater. People were really warming up to him for a while, then they realize the bathwater is warm, but used.

He lost his.a credibility in more ways than just listening to a rabid racist America hate monger for 20 years.

There isn't any getting it back either, and most decent American folks don't appreciate being slopped on.

And we all know about Hitlery and her lies.

McCain will be the next president of the United States.

Want to bet against that, Heck? Anybody?

Yeah, I'd take that bet.

heck-

I am getting to that article. Promise.

*edit* Done.

couple thoughts:

quote:

But the truth is that Obama has a much clearer grasp of what the Jewish state faces than the common-place statements of support from other "pro-Israel" politicians, an erroneous view that almost ineluctably, in Obama's words, "sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam." I trust Obama on this. I already know what strategic concessions Hillary's husband was ready to coerce Israel into giving to Yasir Arafat, who was dumb enough not to take them.

Hard for me to comprehend a Jewish author agreeing with a politician that feels "Israel has created her own problems" Doesn't sit very well with me.
And if Israel is the bad guy? More of the same bullying she got from Clinton could be anticipated, yes?

quote:

This is a far more urgent situation than the one in which Obama finds himself. (My words- Referring to the Catholic church suggesting legislators who support abortion legislation can not take communion)

I think this is apples & oranges. He's comparing dogma (Cath commun) vs. a deep set of spiritual beliefs. While communion should be one of the most spiritual acts Christians participate in, it has become the most rigid, dogmatic, cumbersome, scripted mess I can think of. (At least in Catholic/ Anglican services - from my experience.)

Then the author suggests leaving a church is difficult by giving examples of major schisms in recent history. Kind of different from member (or family) leaving a church. I agree it's very difficult for a family or individual to leave a church, but his examples were a bit dramatic.

Overall, good read. Thanks.