Ok, I am surprised no talk about this yet. I have heard snips of what the man said. How does Obama associate with a man like this. I do not beleive that he did not know what the man preached or was about. I think this shows a little about who Obama really is. I don't beleive that he beleives all that stuff, I beleive that he will use what ever he can to win. He will pander to peoples fears, he is not about uniting. This is just really disturbing.

I am sure Shep will tell me I am taking this all to serious and that the republician media has spun it all out of control.

I'm the last one to propose media conspiracy, but the only way he distances himself from this one is if the media decides to let him. The guy said some really outrageous things. It wasnt a spur of the moment thing; those arent ideas you just think out loud about. Obama has said the man is his "sounding board" his "spiritual mentor", he has been going to the man's church for 17 or so years, etc. This is a real problem for him (especially now that it casts his wife's comments in a new light), and he should be forced to address it head-on, not just say "I disagree".

i must of missed this, what specifically did this preacher say that was so outrageous?

Tupa, are you really going to pretend to be really stunned and upset about this?

Do you for a second believe that Barack Obama believes the things his pastor believes?

Come on. Let's try and be grown ups and see this dust-up for what it is.

quote:

Originally posted by sevknowsbetter:
i must of missed this, what specifically did this preacher say that was so outrageous?

Here is a video link of the sound bites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ38N8OUg3Q

You have to listen to the whole thing.

quote:

Originally posted by heckofajobBrownie:
Tupa, are you really going to pretend to be really stunned and upset about this?

Do you for a second believe that Barack Obama believes the things his pastor believes?

Come on. Let's try and be grown ups and see this dust-up for what it is.

I must be mistaken, I thought one went to a specific church or such because of shared beliefs. So you are saying he went there for many years, called this guy his spirtual leader but does not beleive what he stands for. So that would mean that he only used the reverand to secure the black vote when he was just starting out. He misrepresented himself to them.

So which is it? Either way, does he share racist views or sell out to whoever will get him elected.

As for what was said, hey more power to the Rev, he can beleive and sell whatever he wants. But I don't want it in the White House, any more then I wanted that David Duke crap.

I watched that video and I dont understand what he dramatically delivered to be "unamerican" and or racist.

1. Factually the concentration of wealth in the United states is with a small cabal of "white" males.
2. We did drop 2 Atomic bombs on Japan that caused massive catastrophic death.
3. We do support Israel and their policies that are clearly oppressive to the Palestinion people.
4. We did support along with Britain The south african government financially and exploit the apartheid system for decades.
5. Our policies and (oil) financial interests in the middle ease is EXACTLY what has created us enemies that in fact did attack us for those reasons.
6. The government does decieve the general public on a regular basis
7. Our laws and penal system do have a negative social and economic effect on urban (black/hispanic) populations.

I dont understand his HIV link but his dramatic delivery of real facts dont exactly make him "unamerican" and or racist. Maybe the people in this country dont want to accept responsibility for its destructive disposable consumerism that effects many different regions of the world. Our foreign policies are based from our financial needs and supply of commodities like OIL. In the last 75 years we have played every side of the middle eastern region without any "moral" compass, it was always based on either communism stop gap measures or OIL.

We dont have a lot of footing for moral outrage when we intentionally support countries like Saudi arabia and UAE, Kuwait who clearly abuse their women and treat them like property. We dont support the Palestinions who are being oppressed by land expanionist policies from Israel. We did SUPPRESS DEMOCRACY IN IRAN IN FAVOR OF A DICTATOrSHIP FROM THE SHAH. WE did support Saddam against Iran. We did support a corrupt suppressive government against the Taliban in afghanistan. Honestly the Taliban as suppressive as they were cut out the heroin growth and trade in afghanistan to virtually nothing.

I am a patriot and very loyal to my Country, however that does not make me blind to the truth of our existance. This preacher is in fact very American for speaking his beliefs against some current and past policies of our Country.

I know most people dont like to accept responsibility and want to live in La La land. They would like to brand this preacher with names for trying to express a very ugly reality of our society.

You want to drive that big suv and 4x4 truck? You want all of our cheap plastic goods from walmart and the dollar general? You want to pay for cheap trash disposal with no mandatory recycling laws? You want new car models every year? How about new tv's and clothes. ALL OF IT TAKES SOME SORT OF OIL SOMEWHERE IN MANUFACTURING AND OR SHIPPING. That means our society wants our government to do what it has to in other parts of the world to make sure we have those things.

We do create enemies thru our usage of goods because of where we get those commodities from. Do you remember Abu Ghraib? Do you really think that was the "first" time we used torture/humiliation tactics? So if Obama thinks this preacher might be a guide for his moral compass you know for a preacher who is willing to actually express personal responsibility and government moral hypocrisy I dont really find all that to be disturbing.

Nav, the idea that if you attend someone's church you're responsible for everything the church's pastor says and believes is beyond ridiculous. So is your "either/or" scenario.

By your logic, we should hold John McCain to Reverend Falwell's statements that America deserved 9/11 because we tolerate gays and abortion. After all, he "only used the reverand to secure the Evangelical vote". But we wouldn't do that, because that'd be stupid.

Like I said, let's try and be grown ups here. This is the kind of crap that fills the news when there are six weeks left to go in the primary season. If you think it's important, or that this is really what Barack Obama believes, you're part of the problem.

Let's try and keep our eyes on the ball, shall we? Jesus.

Sev,

Now you are making generalizations about a lot of things. The system has problems no doubt there, we have a past to. But then if you start looking at any individual country there are some ugly things out there. While we may play politics in the world, so does everyone else including the countries that need help the most. This goes back into the damn if you do damned if you don't. Which battles do we get in, Iraq is a perfect example.

Now on to what the man said. Again he can have his opinion and express it, I just don't think that polarized views like that belong in the White House. The Rev is selling racist beliefs. I don't see how you can spin in any other way. And as far as the man keeping people down. I think people need to look into the mirror today and see what their real problems are.

Or maybe it's even worse than you think. Look who Obama said he'd make Secretary of Defense if he gets elected:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3oHpup-pk

quote:

Originally posted by heckofajobBrownie:
Nav, the idea that if you attend someone's church you're responsible for everything the church's pastor says and believes is beyond ridiculous. So is your "either/or" scenario.

By your logic, we should hold John McCain to Reverend Falwell's statements that America deserved 9/11 because we tolerate gays and abortion. After all, he "only used the reverand to secure the Evangelical vote". But we wouldn't do that, because that'd be stupid.

Like I said, let's try and be grown ups here. This is the kind of crap that fills the news when there are six weeks left to go in the primary season. If you think it's important, or that this is really what Barack Obama believes, you're part of the problem.

Let's try and keep our eyes on the ball, shall we? Jesus.

Heck this is not a just attended his church and it was not an on and off thing. When you call a man your spirtial mentor that implies that he is your teacher. You make it sound like it was a one time deal. It was like 15 years. You do understand the word mentor.

Now if McCain would have called the Rev Falwell his spirtual mentor, or been weekly member at his ranting I would have a problem with that. One of the reasons I do not like and would not vote for Huckabee. Religion and racist views do not belong in the White House. What has happened in the past or who has been elected before does not make it right in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by heckofajobBrownie:
Or maybe it's even worse than you think. Look who Obama said he'd make Secretary of Defense if he gets elected:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3oHpup-pk

I did not watch the whole thing but if the man can do the job and does not have a bunch of racist baggage works for me. You??

Religion doesn't belong in the White House? Someone should tell President Bush.

But I think you're missing the point here. You're right. Racist views don't belong in the White House. One need only listen to the taped discussions between Billy Graham and Richard Nixon to come to that conclusion.

And before his death, Graham was a "spiritual advisor" to every president since Nixon.

But all you have to ask yourself is: do you really think Barack Obama is a racist?

And if you don't, do you really think Reverend Wright is going to be making policy?

And if the answer to both questions is no, then what are you so worried about?

quote:

Originally posted by heckofajobBrownie:
Religion doesn't belong in the White House? Someone should tell President Bush.

But I think you're missing the point here. You're right. Racist views don't belong in the White House. One need only listen to the taped discussions between Billy Graham and Richard Nixon to come to that conclusion.

And before his death, Graham was a "spiritual advisor" to every president since Nixon.

But all you have to ask yourself is: do you really think Barack Obama is a racist?

And if you don't, do you really think Reverend Wright is going to be making policy?

And if the answer to both questions is no, then what are you so worried about?

Do I think Obama is racist, not really sure. I think the people you associate with tells a lot about you. The fact that that relationship lasted for 15 years is disturbing. He had to know about the Rev's views.

Will the Rev make policy, no but his teaching are going to affect how Obama deals with things. Lets put it this way, Dog the Bounty Hunter (tv type), do I think he is a racist, no. Do I think that in the heat of the moment old teachings and such came forward in an emotional outburst, yes. This cannot happen in the White House.

Again what happened in the past does not justify excepting it now. I don't care from which side it is on. This bothers me to the point that I would rather see Hillary then Obama now and I really distrust Hillary.

quote:

Originally posted by NAVDAWG:
Ok, I am surprised no talk about this yet. I have heard snips of what the man said. How does Obama associate with a man like this. I do not beleive that he did not know what the man preached or was about. I think this shows a little about who Obama really is. I don't beleive that he beleives all that stuff, I beleive that he will use what ever he can to win. He will pander to peoples fears, he is not about uniting. This is just really disturbing.

I am sure Shep will tell me I am taking this all to serious and that the republician media has spun it all out of control.

I am sure you sucking off America your whole life renders the above post..........but that is what what it is..............you being a a slime ball not having a clue what what you are are scum sucking on welfare from America being judgemental about this guy

Why would I expect more from a moron

I have watched that video three times and still dont seem to get a "racist" vibe. what a suburban upper middle class white women and man (clintons) dont understand what it is like to be a minority in a society that is controlled mostly by white's.

This country and its media is in fact controlled by White ceo's and government leaders and has been. How is pointing the lack of perspective as a minority in comparison to the Clinton's racist?? He may deliver his speeches with a bit of "victim" like anger but that is not "racist".

Ok someone explain this to me, specifically paraphrase an exact complete statement as well as pertinent information about his speeches that promote "racism".

He makes some odd statement about HIV but beyond that I still have not heard any "racist" statements.

Nav, so you were for Obama, but then his pastor said some shit, and now you'll vote with Hillary?

Can you tell me more about this? What is your real fear here? You said you think his teachings will influence Obama. But Obama has already said he entirely disagrees with those teachings.

What would Obama have to do to win you back?

Here's his statement:

The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.

Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.

As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.

Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn.

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.

With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.

And here's his interview with the Chicago Sun-Times.

I can't imagine a thoughtful person changing their vote over any of this nonsense. I *can* imagine several voters giving it weight when they pull the curtain:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/844597,transcript031508.article

Beanpot

Ok I read that statment from Obama distancing himself from the preacher, I read the complete interview. Where is the "racist" /"anti- american" statements from the reverand? There is no exact paraphrasing or direct questions about an exact statement from the preacher. There is some sort of alluding to a possible relationship with the nation of islam. Again where is this direct statement of racism?? I have not read it nor watched it on the vids?

Is this just media hyping some sort of statment that does not exist or spinning a preacher who is taking the US public to task for personal responsibility? There does not seem to exist any direct statement more like some media journalist mislabeling..