quote:

Originally posted by heckofajobBrownie:
I like it. Okay, John. I recently bet a couple people in here who maintained that Obama would never beat Hillary, and looks like I've won that bet.

We're a long ways out, but I think there are enough indicators out there already, most of which don't have anything to do with McCain, that suggest that a Democrat will be in office in January of 2009.

So we can have a nice gentlemen's bet on it. Deal?

No. This board has a sad history of bets and bet pay offs.



Tired voters say Democrats' primary fight divisive

By Andrew Stern

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Many Democrats are frustrated and fatigued by the longest U.S. presidential nomination battle most have witnessed, and the divisions in its wake have left some wondering if they can back the ultimate winner.

"I backed Hillary in the (Wisconsin) primary, but no matter which one gets in, I'm unimpressed by both of them at this point," said Linda Mrochinski, who works for a nonprofit organization in Milwaukee.

"Instead of a policy-based and a 'what we can do' campaign, it's become a campaign of the women versus the blacks. It's just not a very comfortable campaign at this point," she added.

Random interviews conducted after Tuesday night's split voting, in which New York Sen. Hillary Clinton eked out a victory in Indiana and Illinois Sen. Barack Obama won handily in North Carolina, showed many voters would like the Democrats to get it over with.

"Pick somebody, because I think it's probably hurting them in November," said 23-year-old Chicago software developer Matt Sawin, an Obama supporter who said he would back Clinton if she won the nomination to run against Republican presidential candidate John McCain in the November election. "It's going to be messy, no matter what."

In exit polls of Democratic primary voters in Indiana and North Carolina by ABC, more than six in 10 said they would be satisfied with either Obama or Clinton as the nominee, leaving substantial numbers unsatisfied. In Clinton and Obama matchups against McCain, anywhere from a quarter to three in 10 Democrats said they wouldn't vote, or would support McCain.

Merlyn Ware, 37, of Robbinsdale, Minnesota, a town northwest of Minneapolis, is an Obama supporter who said he would not back Clinton if Obama loses the nomination.

"I wouldn't vote for a Republican. I'm going to vote, but maybe for a third party" in that case, he said.

After Tuesday's contests, Clinton vowed to fight on though Obama widened his lead in pledged delegates to the party nominating convention in August.

Many Democrats say the battle has dragged on too long. "I think it needs to end, like, within the next week," said Lisa Gibson, 33, a homemaker in Louisville, Kentucky.

"I care for both candidates actually. I would rather have them come together on the same ticket because I think if any more really bad campaigning goes on I think it's going to alienate one or the other," she said.

WIN-WIN?

"For me it's a win-win," said Allyn Travis, the director of the Montessori Institute of Milwaukee. "Obama is my preference because I love his optimism ... the Clintons have baggage. But, if it comes down to a choice between Hillary and McCain, I'm with Hillary all the way."

But Clinton supporter Herb Buecher of Charleston, South Carolina, said he would no longer back Obama after hearing controversial remarks by Obama's former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

"I can't support a man who sits for 20 years and listens to that rhetoric and then says he didn't hear it," he said of Wright's comments, which have included the assertion the U.S. government purposefully spread the AIDS virus to blacks and the September 11 attacks were payback for U.S. foreign policy.
Buecher said he would vote for McCain if Obama wins the party nod.

Clinton's gender and Obama's race -- she is vying to become the first woman president, he the first black president -- may be a factor in hardening some voters' loyalties.

Others were turned off by what they saw as Clinton's harsh attacks in the back-and-forth between the two Democrats.
"I don't like her politics. She's nasty," said Susan Crozier, 68, who works at a law firm in Blaine, Minnesota, and backs Obama.

Crozier and some others not aligned with either party said that in spite of the infighting among Democrats, they could not stand having another Republican in the White House out of dislike for President George W. Bush.

"Either way, whatever Democrat wins the nomination I'm ready for a change of party in the White House. Normally I vote for the person and not the party, but not this time," said Dean Davis, 42, a health care worker in Nashville, Tennessee.

If somebody here is saying Obama can't beat McCain, it has to be a crystal ball thing. Because polls have him ahead... and that's likely to expand once he's actually the candidate.

McCain will sink because he's too Bushie and he's a a bad speaker in an entirely different way than Bush (McCain is affable but dull and unfocused).

quote:

"Either way, whatever Democrat wins the nomination I'm ready for a change of party in the White House. Normally I vote for the person and not the party, but not this time," said Dean Davis, 42, a health care worker in Nashville, Tennessee.

Make a bumper sticker of that one. It's the story of this election.

>>Make a bumper sticker of that one. It's the story of this election.>>

Figures you'd jump on the one you personally like, Shep, and declare it representative even though the article clearly shows something different.

Maybe Stewart, Colbert, and Offerbag are using the same set of blinders.

I could see how you'd say that since I'm the source, John... but you know it really is the story of this election. With a massively unpopular war and the most unpopular president in history... and what happened in Congress... the key word has to be "change."

Nobody's gonna fly a "stay the course" banner, at least not successfully. So it really, truly comes down to McCain having to make a case that he's the agent of change, not Obama.

It does play into what I hope happens... but it's also the clear truth of the matter. Sometimes it's good to be a Republican, sometimes it's not. Right now is a not.

quote:

Originally posted by rich4eagle:
Wow, Jim Webb........that would be cool.......where did you get that idea????????

Actually, I would like to see Mark Warner whom I would have voted for as President over all other candidates

I can see McCain picking Rev Wright to balance the ticket

Iguess this post never happened as second to the lead question.......says much about decorum..........ah Heck!

I didn't realize I was supposed to respond to that. Sorry.

good choice for VP!

the election in whole is a big joke anyways! look who's running, i wouldn't elect any of them as my mayor.

Rich, I really like Mark Warner. Hopefully, he'll spend the next eight years gaining foreign policy experience on the Senate Armed Service or Foreign Relations committee, then get a shot at being the Democratic nominee for president in 2016.

He'll only be in his early sixties, so he'll be young enough to run then.

Right now, however, I think his lack of foreign policy experience may be a disqualifier for being Obama's VP.

It's good to see that Hillary's taking her political cues from Rich:

Youtube - Hillary Clinton boasts of support from "white Americans"

Would love to see Colin Powell run with McCain, but I think that Bush admin has also ruined the political future of one of our nation's greatest leaders.

I also don't see McCain running with Romney. They are fundamentally different in so many ways.

I would like to see McCain run with Rice, but that won't happen just because he is already taking unfair criticism as a Bush clone. Rice would be a good VP candidate because she is extremely experienced would adjust to McCain's policies.

There isn't really anyone else out there on the Republican side that impresses me.

I also think that Obama would be wise to run with Richardson who is generally admired and would help him pick up some of the hispanic vote that he lacks. If he runs with Billary I'll go nuclear.

I dont see Obama running with Hillary there are too many negatives. She wont because If Mccain beats him she will be the prime candidate again in 2012.

I cant see Obama and Hillary either. I think they dont like each other. Ditto McCain and Romney. A wise choice for McCain would be Colin Powell. But I don't think Powell would do it. Either way, I'm now convinced McCain is not going to win.

really Diehard? I happen to agree with you for once but I am curious why?

Colin Powell has been advising Obama; I think he's given up on the Republican party.

And I think there's no chance he'd run against the first African-American presidential nominee.

quote:

Colin Powell has been advising Obama; I think he's given up on the Republican party.

And I think there's no chance he'd run against the first African-American presidential nominee.

Yeah, it is a mute point because Powell is done with politics anyways. I think whoever McCain picks he will have less room for error than Obama. Barack could probably run with Pee Wee Herman as his VP candidate and still win at this point.

Hey, that gives me an idea. How about a McCain - Larry the Cable Guy ticket?

Powell is going to be fought over, me thinks. He's (very) informally involved with Obama, but is also a Republican who gave money to McCain.

I don't know if he'd even get involved, but if someone could land his backing it'd be a huge boost.

I could see McCain reaching out to him for the VP slot. I'm not sure if Obama would. It'd be a hell of a headline if he did.

I think you are absolutely right, Heck.

1) Powell is a leader and this country is in desperate need of quality leadership at the top.

2) He has totally separated himself from the Bush admin.

3) He disagreed with the premise and way we went about ousting Saddam from the outset, but did his level best to control what he could control.

4) He would be a big boost to Obama, but an even bigger boost to McCain for obvious reasons.

5) He would bring instant credibility to either candidate and as VP show Chaney how a real leader exercises political and diplomatic power.

That said, I wholeheartedly think that Powell is done with politics...and it is a shame.